"I was imagining in this village that it was an honor to wear the bells. It was an honor to be able to protect not just the individual animals, but the well-being and the sustainability of the village, of the community." This quote undid me!!
What a beautiful book and conversation! I think so many of us would be honored to "wear the bells" and protect others when we can, if we had systems that made it possible to do so more often. I think many of us mourn the fact that we are only able to do so much to ease suffering--our own and others--in our current systems. I love this framing and metaphor--beautiful and profound.
Love this! And also I've made it my mission to remind everyone at every opportunity that Darwin wasn't "Darwinian"...when we return to the source we find someone who very much valued cooperation and care. https://elissa.substack.com/p/we-got-darwin-all-wrong
Elissa thanks for sharing this! Yes this is such an incredibly important reframe on the idea of something that so many of us take for granted, and as a "given." Zumas is an incredibly deep thinker on these issues (a lot ended up on the cutting room floor!), and I'm really inspired by all these insights.
Thanks for your interview with Leni Zumas. I loved your questions and her clear answers. And it is important that she's written a book -which I look forward to reading- that presents positive ways we can live together, celebrating differences, imagination and inspired by care of each other.
I just finished “Red Clocks” and I’m really looking forward to “Wolf Bells”.
It’s amazing to me how private health insurance seems to be one of the glues that keeps our capitalist system of operation going. I hadn’t thought of how much our current system seems to say if you are sick or different it’s your problem.
I was at a party recently talking about how AI is already cutting jobs and the guys I was speaking with all agreed that if we had single payer we could deal with the massive layoffs that are coming.
I can’t wait to read this book. Thank you for this interview, Allison, and thank you to the author for writing this thought provoking book. I appreciate reading about the notions of capitalism not being inevitable; of disability not being an individual problem but an issue with how society is set up; and of living together and caring for one another not being without its issues, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing. So affirming and mind expanding to read this interview!
Thank you so much Aine! I was incredibly moved by the book and am so inspired by the conversation with her. She weaves together so many of the ideas we all care deeply about here!
The line “to everyone this world wasn’t built for” feels so universal. Disability, aging, poverty, neurodivergence, caregiving, grief… all the ways people become “stragglers” in a society organized around survival of the fittest.
What moved me most was the idea that systems of care are designed, and therefore can be redesigned. As someone who grew up in a very structured, high-demand religious system, it took me years to understand that my overwhelm, my neurodivergence, and my needs weren’t personal failures, the system simply wasn’t built for me.
The “wolf bells” image broke me open a little. Protecting the vulnerable as an honor instead of a burden? That’s the world I want to help build.
And this vision of radical hospitality, interdependence, and “idiorrhythmy”, everyone living at their own rhythm but coming together in shared humanity, feels both tender and revolutionary.
Thank you for this conversation. It expands the imagination of what community could be if we stopped organizing around efficiency and started organizing around care.
Thanks for this note! I had so many of the sane reactions. I didn’t make the connection to high control religion and I love that additional insight. Some systems we can exit when they are not built for us—others we are stuck in.
Thank you so much for introducing me to this book! I can't wait to read it. I feel like Leni Zumas and my brother Chris Martin should be in touch. https://thelisteningworld.substack.com/
"I was imagining in this village that it was an honor to wear the bells. It was an honor to be able to protect not just the individual animals, but the well-being and the sustainability of the village, of the community." This quote undid me!!
What a beautiful book and conversation! I think so many of us would be honored to "wear the bells" and protect others when we can, if we had systems that made it possible to do so more often. I think many of us mourn the fact that we are only able to do so much to ease suffering--our own and others--in our current systems. I love this framing and metaphor--beautiful and profound.
Love this! And also I've made it my mission to remind everyone at every opportunity that Darwin wasn't "Darwinian"...when we return to the source we find someone who very much valued cooperation and care. https://elissa.substack.com/p/we-got-darwin-all-wrong
Elissa thanks for sharing this! Yes this is such an incredibly important reframe on the idea of something that so many of us take for granted, and as a "given." Zumas is an incredibly deep thinker on these issues (a lot ended up on the cutting room floor!), and I'm really inspired by all these insights.
Thanks for your interview with Leni Zumas. I loved your questions and her clear answers. And it is important that she's written a book -which I look forward to reading- that presents positive ways we can live together, celebrating differences, imagination and inspired by care of each other.
Thank you! Yes, the beauty of Zumas’s book is that even though there is plenty of conflict, we can still find ways to live together!
I just finished “Red Clocks” and I’m really looking forward to “Wolf Bells”.
It’s amazing to me how private health insurance seems to be one of the glues that keeps our capitalist system of operation going. I hadn’t thought of how much our current system seems to say if you are sick or different it’s your problem.
I was at a party recently talking about how AI is already cutting jobs and the guys I was speaking with all agreed that if we had single payer we could deal with the massive layoffs that are coming.
That is a really interesting point! So much would be possible if we designed systems of care that worked for people and their actual needs.
I can’t wait to read this book. Thank you for this interview, Allison, and thank you to the author for writing this thought provoking book. I appreciate reading about the notions of capitalism not being inevitable; of disability not being an individual problem but an issue with how society is set up; and of living together and caring for one another not being without its issues, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing. So affirming and mind expanding to read this interview!
Thank you so much Aine! I was incredibly moved by the book and am so inspired by the conversation with her. She weaves together so many of the ideas we all care deeply about here!
Oh, so excited to read this! And I love that Graeber quote.
Thank you! And this is truly one of my favorite books in a long while!
The line “to everyone this world wasn’t built for” feels so universal. Disability, aging, poverty, neurodivergence, caregiving, grief… all the ways people become “stragglers” in a society organized around survival of the fittest.
What moved me most was the idea that systems of care are designed, and therefore can be redesigned. As someone who grew up in a very structured, high-demand religious system, it took me years to understand that my overwhelm, my neurodivergence, and my needs weren’t personal failures, the system simply wasn’t built for me.
The “wolf bells” image broke me open a little. Protecting the vulnerable as an honor instead of a burden? That’s the world I want to help build.
And this vision of radical hospitality, interdependence, and “idiorrhythmy”, everyone living at their own rhythm but coming together in shared humanity, feels both tender and revolutionary.
Thank you for this conversation. It expands the imagination of what community could be if we stopped organizing around efficiency and started organizing around care.
Thanks for this note! I had so many of the sane reactions. I didn’t make the connection to high control religion and I love that additional insight. Some systems we can exit when they are not built for us—others we are stuck in.
Thank you so much for introducing me to this book! I can't wait to read it. I feel like Leni Zumas and my brother Chris Martin should be in touch. https://thelisteningworld.substack.com/
Oooh thanks for sharing this Courtney!
Thank you for this. Leni is so brilliant! What a lovely interview!!