Loved this perspective. Thanks for helping me to see why I was also worried it was too much, it’s just that we are conditioned to only be a small voice.
Wow Lane! Great minds think alike! (Like this is all exactly what I was thinking this week). I always think of Glennon Doyle’s New York Times book review (do we really need a THIRD memoire from her?!?!) vs David Sedaris (48th memoire? MORE PLEASE!!) when I think of our limited tolerance for women with a mic.
Also applying the Bechtel Test to Mormonism was a WILD wake up call for me. Not only do the Bible and Book of Mormon not pass the Bechtel test but general conference? never references a woman’s point of view outside of how it relates to a man. Sacrament meeting? Even in relief society - all we did was quote men. Such a harrowing realization.
Celeste, yes! What a treat to read your piece! We were totally on the same wavelength in multiple ways. "Limited tolerance for women with a mic" is exactly it.
I was honestly surprised how bad women's representation was when I looked into it--both the Bible and the BOM. Two women's voices in the original BOM narrative--so much for being "modern" scripture, oy. GC was always bad and now I'm wondering if "fundie voice" is in part women trying to downplay themselves so they don't "take up too much space" on top of everything else. Sac meeting and RS yes--uggh. I'm sure YW too which is so depressing!
When I went into writing this I was thinking more about "The Canon" bc that's my area, but my student helped the religious text aspect to click and--duh! This explains why I only pretty much want to read women now all the time forever. I can't even abide Franzen! Maybe we should start a reading list that's all women all the time to undo our socialization.
Such a treat to be introduced to you and your work--good to know you!
Loved reading this. Beyoncé and Tay Tay rock! I was reminded again about how male-centered our world is and how easy it is for men to be blind to all this. Fingers crossed for a Part 2.
Thank you!! To be fair my mom also bought me all the Anne of Green Gables books and other female-centered books which no wonder girls LOVE those! But obviously the deck is still stacked wayyyy out of proportion. Always thinking about what a “Part 2” could look like for girls and our brown girl/brown girls everywhere in particular 👧🏽
Thank you for articulating this! I always knew I got an icky feeling when men couldn't wait to tell me how they "actually can't stand" Beyonce or Taylor, as if it were a secret little point of pride that they were letting me in on. As if I might say "Oh thank god, you too??" It always gave off a "you're not like other girls" vibe.
Thank you Dominique! And. yes, that's weird yet sadly not super surprising. "I have no tolerance for powerful and successful women..." is a heckuva flex, bro!
I am so struck. Yes to all of this! I, like you, grew up in the Mormon church. I had 100% attendance in early morning seminary. I was the captain of the scripture chase team. I knew these scriptures in and out.
And I had an existential crisis when I realized I had no vision for what I could become as a woman.
It's infuriating to hear how much time and effort the church is investing into Joseph Smith's legacy and 27 books. Have they done the same with Eliza Snow? What about the diaries of the pioneer women? Do their words matter as much?
I dreamt one night of teaching in the Relief Society room a class about kissing to the youth. In it, I quoted 2 Nephi 32:72 which said kissing is the best. Of course this would be in the expanded edition, not the original! In therapy though, my wise therapist said, "You are writing your own scripture." I so resonate with all your words. Thank you for bringing your voice to the table.
This is precisely it. And, I’ll gladly take as much as Taylor releases. This paves the road for womxn to put out work at the same volume and with the same prolificacy as Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Prince, Andrew Bird, or King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard… Ps, I would also like to add J.M. Coetzee and Ian McEwan to the author list that I'm happy not to hear from anymore...
This is a great point! I didn’t even think about those bands but I did think about the Beatles (gasps from Beatles fans I’m sure). Maybe we should make a list of “men women and girls are not required to read ever again” books 😅
Hahaha, I thought about all of this while also feeling like, I love music and please, let's just celebrate art *and* in particular, womxn's art!! Regarding the list, I'll consult my friend who's an English Lit. professor as she's definitely got many names to add 😆
Precisely this. We're so overdue -- as Caroline O'Donoghue said on her @sentimentalgarbage podcast -- for a space where womxn just get to have their time fully dedicated to making art and society celebrating that as a beautiful global ecosystem 💫💕
Yes. I don’t think my husband has read Little Women or Anne of Green Gables. I’ve heard of The Bell Jar but never read it. My TBR list just keeps growing.
It’s def a thing that girls reads books about boys, but boys do not read books about girls. And that extends to adulthood! There’s def some strong socialization there.
My partner loves Toni Morrison but if we had a convo we might be surprised about what else he’s read whether assigned or for leisure.
Spot on! So good! Thank you for writing this!
Thanks so much Aileen! And thanks for reading!
Loved this perspective. Thanks for helping me to see why I was also worried it was too much, it’s just that we are conditioned to only be a small voice.
Thank you so much, Emily!
Wow Lane! Great minds think alike! (Like this is all exactly what I was thinking this week). I always think of Glennon Doyle’s New York Times book review (do we really need a THIRD memoire from her?!?!) vs David Sedaris (48th memoire? MORE PLEASE!!) when I think of our limited tolerance for women with a mic.
Also applying the Bechtel Test to Mormonism was a WILD wake up call for me. Not only do the Bible and Book of Mormon not pass the Bechtel test but general conference? never references a woman’s point of view outside of how it relates to a man. Sacrament meeting? Even in relief society - all we did was quote men. Such a harrowing realization.
Celeste, yes! What a treat to read your piece! We were totally on the same wavelength in multiple ways. "Limited tolerance for women with a mic" is exactly it.
I was honestly surprised how bad women's representation was when I looked into it--both the Bible and the BOM. Two women's voices in the original BOM narrative--so much for being "modern" scripture, oy. GC was always bad and now I'm wondering if "fundie voice" is in part women trying to downplay themselves so they don't "take up too much space" on top of everything else. Sac meeting and RS yes--uggh. I'm sure YW too which is so depressing!
When I went into writing this I was thinking more about "The Canon" bc that's my area, but my student helped the religious text aspect to click and--duh! This explains why I only pretty much want to read women now all the time forever. I can't even abide Franzen! Maybe we should start a reading list that's all women all the time to undo our socialization.
Such a treat to be introduced to you and your work--good to know you!
Loved reading this. Beyoncé and Tay Tay rock! I was reminded again about how male-centered our world is and how easy it is for men to be blind to all this. Fingers crossed for a Part 2.
Thank you!! To be fair my mom also bought me all the Anne of Green Gables books and other female-centered books which no wonder girls LOVE those! But obviously the deck is still stacked wayyyy out of proportion. Always thinking about what a “Part 2” could look like for girls and our brown girl/brown girls everywhere in particular 👧🏽
Thank you for articulating this! I always knew I got an icky feeling when men couldn't wait to tell me how they "actually can't stand" Beyonce or Taylor, as if it were a secret little point of pride that they were letting me in on. As if I might say "Oh thank god, you too??" It always gave off a "you're not like other girls" vibe.
I love that line in American Requiem where she takes them head on and asks, "Can you stand me?"
Yes!And I love that whole album bc the whole thing is kind of like..."I'm not going away and in fact I'm coming for you." It's brilliant.
Thank you Dominique! And. yes, that's weird yet sadly not super surprising. "I have no tolerance for powerful and successful women..." is a heckuva flex, bro!
I am so struck. Yes to all of this! I, like you, grew up in the Mormon church. I had 100% attendance in early morning seminary. I was the captain of the scripture chase team. I knew these scriptures in and out.
And I had an existential crisis when I realized I had no vision for what I could become as a woman.
It's infuriating to hear how much time and effort the church is investing into Joseph Smith's legacy and 27 books. Have they done the same with Eliza Snow? What about the diaries of the pioneer women? Do their words matter as much?
I dreamt one night of teaching in the Relief Society room a class about kissing to the youth. In it, I quoted 2 Nephi 32:72 which said kissing is the best. Of course this would be in the expanded edition, not the original! In therapy though, my wise therapist said, "You are writing your own scripture." I so resonate with all your words. Thank you for bringing your voice to the table.
This is precisely it. And, I’ll gladly take as much as Taylor releases. This paves the road for womxn to put out work at the same volume and with the same prolificacy as Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Prince, Andrew Bird, or King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard… Ps, I would also like to add J.M. Coetzee and Ian McEwan to the author list that I'm happy not to hear from anymore...
This is a great point! I didn’t even think about those bands but I did think about the Beatles (gasps from Beatles fans I’m sure). Maybe we should make a list of “men women and girls are not required to read ever again” books 😅
Hahaha, I thought about all of this while also feeling like, I love music and please, let's just celebrate art *and* in particular, womxn's art!! Regarding the list, I'll consult my friend who's an English Lit. professor as she's definitely got many names to add 😆
Agree!
And I think I see a thread calling for all the good women’s books and art we need to share w each other!
Precisely this. We're so overdue -- as Caroline O'Donoghue said on her @sentimentalgarbage podcast -- for a space where womxn just get to have their time fully dedicated to making art and society celebrating that as a beautiful global ecosystem 💫💕
Heaven 🙌
Yes. I don’t think my husband has read Little Women or Anne of Green Gables. I’ve heard of The Bell Jar but never read it. My TBR list just keeps growing.
It’s def a thing that girls reads books about boys, but boys do not read books about girls. And that extends to adulthood! There’s def some strong socialization there.
My partner loves Toni Morrison but if we had a convo we might be surprised about what else he’s read whether assigned or for leisure.