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After I spent two weeks excavating with a Mormon co-worker (I used to be an archaeologist, we were digging together every day for 10 hours), where we compared notes on her upbringing as a Mormon and mine as a Catholic, I concluded that Mormonism is a lot like Catholicism, which really pissed my mom off when I mentioned it to her, but is undeniable if you actually know anything about both of them. It's all a matter of degree.

And this part:

"There is no part of your life, no thought you can form, that’s not filtered through your Mormon-wired brain."

hits hard, because I left the Catholic Church 20 years ago and I would not say that I am 100% not-Catholic yet. There's a reason people joke about being a recovering Catholic. I feel fine showing my shoulders because I wasn't raised in an extremely conservative church, but I still feel weird about cleavage because I wasn't raised in an extremely liberal church.

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Thanks for sharing this, Colby. Years ago Mormons were also raised that Catholics were the "bad guys" haha ! I like the phrase "recovering" Catholic, Mormons definitely need to borrow this term :)

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There was a time when I hated that term, and refused to use it, and actually said things like, "I'm not recovering! I'm recovered. I'm not Catholic anymore, I'm done." When I'd only stopped going to Mass two years prior. Oh, sweet summer child.

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Love it that the first comment I read says exactly what I was thinking. This last line clued me in: "Of course, there’s also many other things in the show that are very Mormon that are darker—family estrangement, shunning, eating disorders, domestic abuse and controlling relationships." This is what Catholicism did to my family. My mother stayed married to an emotionally and sexually abusive man (my father), and hasn't spoken to me in years because I "destroyed the family." Meanwhile my brother has rampant affairs, sexual misconduct, and when his marriage falls apart and his ex-wife starts dating, he sues her for full custody (as in complete custody, no access for her) and has drug her through the court system with his wealth and insanity until she's been financially eviscerated. Which was his stated intent. And I "destroyed my family" by standing with my former sister-in-law. Sorry, that was a lot. But the point is that restrictive religious systems destroy women and children, and you can definitely put Catholicism in that category.

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Ha! Same wavelength- I could not stop myself from both bingeing and writing about this show! Also I started my essay with “I usually don’t watch reality tv.” You and me? We’re not like the other Mormon girls 🫠

Also the connection of Mormonism to Latin ballroom dance is another one of those interesting paradoxes. All of my husband’s family did ballroom super competitively. The girls are as moral and chaste and squeaky clean as they come… until they are competing the rumba 💃🏻🔥

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This is maybe definitely both of our thing 😅

I can’t wait to read yours! I had fun writing this honestly it reminded me how fun Mormon culture can be. Sometimes :)

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Sep 22Liked by Lane Anderson

OMG this made my day: "Is Taylor Paul our polygamist-wife ancestors’ dream? Hard to say, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility." Bahahahaha! Isn't this the truth!

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Ha!! Thank you Sarah I loved writing this part 😅 IYKYK!

I haven’t watched enough to see how toxic her relationship is. But in terms of living her best life including sex life while low key highlighting the hypocrisy of the Mormon church…I love it.

Would be interested in your thoughts in the sex “scandal” part of this!

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Sep 22Liked by Lane Anderson

Haha, I can totally see why! This is pure gold!

I haven’t had a chance to watch this yet, so will have to buckle up and get ready for a ride. I remember when this scandal went down during covid, with the soaking and “it’s okay to put it in, but not to thrust” (wtf?!).

Curious how much they actually get into this? We’ll just have to see!

I’ll return and report. 😂

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Hahaha! Pls do! You’re THE perfect person to analyze soft swinging for us!

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Sep 23Liked by Lane Anderson

They put Sam Smith's Unholy at the end of the trailer, what exactly are they saying is 'soft' swinging again🫣😂. I had to go and look it up after reading this but it seems the trailer is the only thing we're getting for now outside of the US. It's so fascinating that using make-up and doing things to be seen as pretty are seen as good things by these strict religions, or at least allowed.

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Ha! Bad news about the swinging—there’s no tell all about the dang swinging! Total bait and switch! 4 eps in no details.

Where’s the swinging deets?? 😂😂

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Haha! We could have seen that coming to be fair 🤣.

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Sep 23Liked by Lane Anderson

I am also ex-Mormon and totally experience the “world collapse” as I left the church. I find this show endlessly fascinating. Thank you for this article!

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The “world collapse” is so validating and I hope it’s helpful to you ❤️

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Sep 22Liked by Lane Anderson

As someone who decided religion wasn’t for me early in age, this still hits spot on with a sledgehammer. I say good on ya ladies. Make them uncomfortable…paybacks for the years of repression you’ve suffered.

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Right?!! It’s easy to feel for them in all their flaws.

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Sep 27Liked by Lane Anderson

"Is Taylor Frankie Paul the revenge fantasy of our polygamist-wife ancestors?" I just watched the first episode of TSLOMW (for the same reasons you did, because when there is saucy Mormon content I run, not walk as a born-and-raised Utahn, no matter what the context is). Our sister-wife ancestors put up with so much ridiculousness; I love thinking about the show in this karmic light.

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Ha! Right?! I think of them often. I hope this show has them cackling in their graves thx for reading!

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Sep 24Liked by Lane Anderson

Enjoyed this article almost as much as the show😆 such a solid and fun analysis.

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Thanks so much! And thanks for reading :)

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Sep 24Liked by Lane Anderson

You nailed it! Fun read. 😉

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Thanks so much!

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Loved this, Lane. I've been so fascinated by all the various smart analyses (like Sara Petersen's) parsing out the question of where patriarchy is and isn't being subverted here, and thought that your ability to situate it more broadly in LDS culture really unlocked so much for me. Thank you!

No need to respond to this half, but if you did have a take here there's a question that I've been wrestling with in the past few weeks that I anticipate you'd have a smart take on. [Caveat here that my LDS knowledge is secondary; the part of the West I grew up in is significantly less LDS and while my wife was raised in a heavily LDS area of SE Idaho, her family weren't part of the church]. My limited understanding of LDS history is that from the beginning the church was many things (high control, hierarchical, white supremacist, immensely patriarchal, but also utopian proto-socialist) and it's notable that over time all the parts that one might hope the church would evolve on (the high control/patriarchy/white supremacy, etc.) have either remained unchanged or evolved from explicit to implicit for greater public acceptance but the one thing that the church abandoned altogether was what I'd argue was its best feature (though a sympathetic argument could be made that the church is an extra-statist social democracy for its members). I guess I have two questions-- one, is that analysis/read of history correct or incorrect? And, if it is mildly correct, would you foresee that in the next decades there may be some outward moves towards softening (at least from a PR perspective) the church's patriarchy ("soft patriarchy," lol)-- such as being slightly less restrictive on things like clothing that reveals the wearer isn't wearing garments, a little more open to women working non home-based jobs, etc. as long as that 'softening' doesn't impact the broader structure and/or bottom line of the church?

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Hi Garrett! One, thanks for reading. And two, I love a smart Mormonism question and hopefully I can help you with it! Whatever I can't tease out I can probably point you to some smart Mormon scholars to answer. I know that we are from similar necks of the woods from having read your book--my mom's (Mormon) family is from Montana and Wyoming (Billings, Missoula, and Sheridan, respectively). As you probably know, Brigham Young sent Mormon colonies to what are now Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. So there is certainly Mormon history there, but not in the same concentration as Utah.

First, I was intrigued by this part of your question: "but the one thing that the church abandoned altogether was what I'd argue was its best feature..." what were you referring to here? I think I lost what the "best thing" was and would like to know.

Re: the rest of your question, I'd say your reading is correct, yes. The part that you might find most interesting in re: to race is that the early church leaders went back and forth on acceptance of Black members. In the early frontier days when Joseph Smith was in charge, Black men were allowed to have the priesthood and members of the church were politically abolitionist. Some Black members even migrated with the Mormon pioneers to settle what is now Utah. However, Brigham Young, who was a real SOB on MANY FRONTS, succeeded Smith and changed the church's tune...forbidding Black priesthood and making many terrible racist statements/doctrines. Eventually those Black members left Utah. I might have some of the details not exactly right but those are the broad strokes. I learned what I know from the book "Mormonism and White Supremacy" by Joanna Brooks, published in 2020. The book is great, but you can also glean a lot of the info from this great episode with Radio West: https://radiowest.kuer.org/religion/2020-06-12/mormonism-and-white-supremacy

As for the rest of your question, I'll have to get back to you after dinner :)

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Oops on the unclear sentence-- by "best feature" (defined by somebody with my particular political biases) I was referring to what some scholars would argue was the early church's utopian proto-socialism.https://www.salon.com/2012/04/15/when_mormons_were_socialists/

Also: such fascinating context re: Smith vs. Young on race (at least Black/White race relations-- that makes me curious on whether there's been any scholarship on whether Smith would have taken a different stance re: Mormon/Indigenous relations had he led the church post-Nauvoo), but regardless, no pressure but excited for your thoughts on the other questions too...

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Interesting question--communal living has faded so far from Mormonism that I don't even know much about this. We heard very little about it--I was raised in the Reagan era of Mormonism! Mormonism in my lifetime has been very much prosperity gospel style. Because so much of my interest in Mormon history is about polygamy (and because so much of early Mormon history is white-washed and glossed over if not just hidden from members) it's hard for me not to see attempts at proto-socialism through the lens of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" in re: to the early leaders--including other people's wives. Smith had many sketchy business dealings that got him into all kinds of trouble, and his polygamy was secretive and coercive, not "utopian-egalitarian." So I of course question how authentic the communal cover was--but I'm not super educated on it. I do know about a decade ago there was a movement/small schism to take back the church from its current "corporate" state--google "Denver Snuffer" the name of its leader (amazing name, gotta say!).

Re: your original question about will the church "soften" its stance, this is THE question about the church in my lifetime! The church is finally undergoing a schism like the ones that most other churches have gone through. The last 15 years have seen the church being challenged with two big movements--the first was one by women demanding priesthood authority. That one reached a head in 2014 or so, and the church doubled down and not only refused to shift, but excommunicated any leaders of the movement--essentially banished them from the church. That was a big blow. The second has been a battle over acceptance for gay members, and the church has doubled down on that, too. The church's response to the legalization of gay marriage was an "exclusion policy" in 2015 in which they declared they would not baptize any children from a gay couple's family. That..did not go over well with many members and contributed greatly to a lot of people jumping ship (including the the final nail for yours truly), even though the church has walked that back now.

For now it seems clear that the church is only interested in making tiny, incremental changes and not in inclusive "big tent Mormonism" (ex. letting women pray more or give more talks in major church events, hold their babies while men with the priesthood bless them, etc.), but not giving women any significant role or power. Actually, some congregations recently let women sit "on the stand" at the front of the congregation during meetings where male leaders usually sit, but church brass found out and banned that last year, too. So it's very, very tiny progress and still big shows of power/control.

Same on the front with gay acceptance, where they now allow children of gay members to be baptized, but that's about it.

They will have to continue to make *some incremental changes to stay relevant, but are clearly resisting anything but crumbs at this point. Some argue that the purpose of patriarchy is to reproduce straight (mostly white) male power, so to expect anything else from a patriarchal institution is to misunderstand what it is. Some also conjecture that the church is so wealthy now ($200 billion and counting) that it actually doesn't have to keep the pews *that full to keep itself going...forever.

I've written about women and the church some here if you're interested: https://matriarchyreport.substack.com/publish/posts/detail/143075423?referrer=%2Fpublish%2Fposts%3Fsearch%3Dsending%2520a%2520woman

and here: https://matriarchyreport.substack.com/p/ballerina-farm-and-the-rise-of-the/comments

The Mormon Land podcast is always covering this kind of stuff: https://www.sltrib.com/podcasts/mormonland/

And here's a link to the "Ordain Women" movement by Mormon women demanding priesthood that got shut down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordain_Women

Happy to chat offline too, if I can be of help. If you ever wrote about Mormonism/Western frontier history and race I would be fascinated!!

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That's so helpful, thank you! I think it's going to be interesting to watch from both directions-- both the question of where a patriarchal, high control institution chooses to strategically allow small amounts of reform/subversion AND what areas members who remain connected to that institution (and who were, like you noted for yourself, raised in a pure prosperity gospel world of Mormonism) subvert on a grassroots level and what areas they don't? [By which I mean-- I love that there might be tiny signs of internal member-driven subversion of church doctrine on sexuality and gender issues, but it's notable that it's being done in a paradigm that still exalts wealth/capitalism and Whiteness, at least at this point)? Regardless, so many fascinating layers here and I appreciate your patience and diligence as an Ex-mo feminist scholar with my complete outsider curiosity!

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"there might be tiny signs of internal member-driven subversion of church doctrine on sexuality and gender issues, but it's notable that it's being done in a paradigm that still exalts wealth/capitalism and Whiteness, at least at this point)." I think that's about right! Add patriarchy in there, and that's about it.

I'm not a scholar of this, but thank you for the kind words! There are a lot of things that I love about Mormon culture and it's fun to talk about and think about :)

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Sep 24Liked by Lane Anderson

I’m just a fly on the wall of this back-and-forth. SO INTERESTING YOU TWO!

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Ha! You get an award for reading all this, Danielle! 😅

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Sep 25Liked by Lane Anderson

Utah native here, born and raised (and still here). So let’s say I have a vested interest.

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Ha! You should be informing US!

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Sep 23Liked by Lane Anderson

As an east coast born and raised LDS women, some of the culture you are describing above is Utah Mormon culture, and not representative of Mormon culture across the country. The few times I have visited or lived in Utah I never felt comfortable, the church was so all encompassing and suffocating there, but I don’t feel that living in places with fewer LDS people.

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I have lived outside of Utah for most of my adult life and it’s a different aesthetic and vibe on the east coast for sure. But the doctrine remains the same!

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THANK YOU for this!

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Thank you for reading, Sara!

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Sep 22Liked by Lane Anderson

Lane I loved this

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Emma! Thanks so much my friend :)

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I did not know about the world collapse thing! Now, I can make sense of some more stuff.

And I just might want to go watch this show out of sheer curiosity…

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Right?! It’s so validating! And I’m not recommending the show but I’m not NOT recommending it… :)

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Yes it really is, thank you for helping with that! Oh, I’m just curious as to what I left behind and what’s changed and not… ; )

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WORLD COLLAPSE!!!! I experienced this as I became exvangelical!!!!!

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I bet!! It is a real thing! If you follow the link the description in the research is very validating :)

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Oh I already did and scheduled a therapy appt!

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Fantastic! 🙌

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Thanks for sharing.

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